Subject:                          Seasons Greetings from the Anthropogenic Climate Change Sceptics (Militant Wing)

'The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits' - Albert Einstein


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From: Geoff Derrick []

Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012 12:57 AM

To: 'Carter, Bob'

Subject: RE: Passionate geology


Hi Bob


I have just endured the major entry of Tony Jones into the world of science fiction, as he tonight presented a lengthy Lateline report on geoengineering, ranging from ocean fertilisation by iron to aluminium and sulphate particles etc n the sky, to creation of man-made volcanoes, all to stop emissions of plant food. These are dangerous stupid people (hence the presence of Clive Hamilton), and two angles in reply come to mind in any forthcoming letter – one is a quote by Einstein that ‘the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits’. The other angle is one I made up myself just now, and with a wink to Mrs Malaprop, I suspect that all geoengineers are just a bunch of aerosols.




Geoff Derrick


-----Original Message-----
From: Carter, Bob []
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:10 PM
To: Geoff Derrick; 'Kim Stanton-Cook'; John Nethery; Ian Plimer; 'Viv Forbes'
Subject: RE: Passionate geology


Go, Roger, go, and I am sure that we all understand the reasons for your impatience.


The scientific arguments that are supposed to support DAGW have been in tatters for years, yet the political bandwagon simply rolls on as if all was well with the IPCC’s insane policy advice.


Most remarkable of all, though, is that no group of sensible business people has emerged on the global scene (even if behind the scenes) to organize persons like Lindzen, Plimer, Kininmonth et al. into a properly funded organisation to fight these noxious policies at a fully professional level. Yes, much money would be needed to market the necessary messages, but unless you base that expenditure on expert and truly independent scientific advice it will be largely wasted.   


What we are seeing in the West is nothing less than the destruction of our historically hard-won rationalist polity by emotional environmental terrorism from within. The response of leading business people, worldwide, seems to be to shrug and say (i) what does our company need to do to conform to green political correctness, so that we are not demonized in the media and threatened by the likes of Greenpeace; and (ii) that taken care of, how do we make a buck out of this? Richard Branson might be cited as the holotype for this type of behaviour.


It is hard to believe that so many so well educated and/or wealthy people can be so very stupid, and their children and ours are in due course going to pay the price.





Professor Robert (Bob) M. Carter


Marine Geophysical Laboratory

James Cook University

Townsville, Qld. 4811



Phone (mobile): +61-(0)419-701-139

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From: Geoff Derrick []
Sent: 22 November 2012 16:52
To: 'Kim Stanton-Cook'; John Nethery; Carter, Bob; Ian Plimer; 'Viv Forbes'
Subject: Passionate geology


Hi all


Roger Dewhurst had a rant on WUWT today, re the Gergis/Mann debacle;  his passionate words are not a bad advertisement for making Earth Science the ‘subject de jour’ in our universities.  Without a geological understanding, we are but empty vessels.







1.       Roger Dewhurst says:

November 21, 2012 at 6:27 pm

Climate shroundwavers and sceptics alike, are engaged in a
totally futile argument over questionable data, questionable models and
questionable interpretation all revolving around ‘data’ collected over a
mere 1/ 10^8 of the history of this planet, and influenced by short term
political perspective. For god’s sake consider how this planet formed
4,500 million years ago, how the crust and mantle differentiated from
the metallic core, how primitive forms of life permitted the formation
of an atmosphere containing oxygen, how volcanoes in the process of a
differentiating crust fed the atmosphere with carbon dioxide, how after
plants populated this planet the carbon in carbon dioxide was deposited
in vast deposits of coal, limestone, chalk, oil and gas. From the
beginning volcanic activity has contributed carbon dioxide to the
atmosphere at a gradually decreasing rate. The rate has changed at
times because volcanic activity has waxed and waned. The vast forests
of carboniferous times soaked up the carbon dioxide from the atmosphere
and plants have continued to remove it from the atmosphere since then.
The carbon from the atmosphere has been converted, by plants, to peat
and coal on land and to limestone, chalk, oil and gas in the oceans and
oceanic sediments. That process continues today. The tenor of carbon
dioxide in the atmosphere has, irregularly, declined to the point where
it is now sub-optimal for the growth of most plants. This has happened
because, on average, the rate of deposition of carbon in soils and
marine sediments has overtaken the rate of emission of carbon dioxide
from volcanic sources both on land and in the oceans. Many things have
influenced climate throughout the history of this planet, among them are
the output of the sun, the orbit of this planet around the sun, the
positions of the land masses on the surface of the planet which
determine the location and strength of the oceanic currents which
transfer heat from equatorial to polar regions, and changes and
reversals of the earth’s magnetic field. Of all these matters we have
much less than total understanding and over none of them do we have any
control whatsoever. Nevertheless we are beset with idiots knowing next
to nothing, obsessed with the number of angels able to dance on the head
of a pin and insisting that we, puny creatures that we are, are about to
destroy the planet by burning a trivial proportion of the coal, oil and
gas reserves stored in the earth’s crust, thus returning to the
atmosphere that which came from it.



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Watts Up with That? - Anthony Watts spots Cancun COP16 delegates signing up to ban di-hydrogen monoxide......

Bob Carter's New Book
Climate: the Counter Consensus
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Vaclav Klaus in The Spectator-Australia "Thank Heavens for Bob Carter"

From:                                         Geoff Derrick []

Sent:                                           Monday, 19 November 2012 12:10 PM

To:                                               Kim Stanton-Cook

Subject:                                     RE: Unsual for their ABC to be running this.....


Hi Kim


Al Gore works in a similar mindset to Flannery – see his learned science re Earth’s temperature.


CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST: Now, what about ... you talk in the book about geothermal energy...


O'BRIEN: ...and that is, as I understand it, using the heat that's generated from the core of the earth ...

GORE: Yeah.

O'BRIEN: create energy, and it sounds to me like an evil plan by Lex Luthor to defeat Superman. Can you, can you tell me, is this a viable solution, geothermal energy?

GORE: It definitely is, and it's a relatively new one. People think about geothermal energy - when they think about it at all - in terms of the hot water bubbling up in some places, but two kilometers or so down in most places there are these incredibly hot rocks, 'cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot ...


On Tuesday, National Review's John Derbyshire noted:


The geothermal gradient is usually quoted as 25-50 degrees Celsius per mile of depth in normal terrain (not, e.g., in the crater of Kilauea). Two kilometers down, therefore, (that's a mile and a quarter if you're not as science-y as Al) you'll have an average gain of 30-60 degrees - exploitable for things like home heating, though not hot enough to make a nice pot of tea. The temperature at the earth's core, 4,000 miles down, is usually quoted as 5,000 degrees Celsius, though these guys claim it's much less, while some contrarian geophysicists have posted claims up to 9,000 degrees. The temperature at the surface of the Sun is around 6,000 degrees Celsius, while at the center, where nuclear fusion is going on bigtime, things get up over 10 million degrees.






Chelmer Office Services

10 Central Avenue Graceville  Q  4075

Ph:       3379 2555

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From: Kim Stanton-Cook []
Sent: Monday, 19 November 2012 9:00 AM
To: roger hobbs; George Lloyd; Geoff Derrick; Martin Booker; paul melville; Paul Burrell
Subject: Unsual for their ABC to be running this.....


And, for good measure, today I heard Tim Flannery, a man for whom hyperbole is an artform, say that 70 million native animals are killed each day by cats, presumably feral and domestic…..

Hi Kim and Viv
Three in three days – quite an overload, and so far none published. My chest is lighter however.
Letter to Editor, The Australian, sent Sunday 9 Jan 2011.
Mr Steketee (Weekend Australian 8 Jan 2011) needs to tread carefully in the highly manipulated world of climate and weather statistics. Quoting data from the UN World Meteorological Organisation is suspect because the WMO jointly created the IPCC, which is dedicated to proving that anthropogenic warming is happening regardless of evidence. The British Met Office is in disarray for its conflicting and error-prone forecasts provided to the UK, while in New Zealand the national weather body abandoned their official temperature records because of manipulation of past data by the government agency. In Australia, the BOM is no different to many other data collection agencies around the world in selective manipulation of older raw data records downwards (i.e. cooler), thus making the overall trend appear warmer to the present. This effect is also achieved by closing of thousands of data stations around the world, most in the cooler regions, thus leading to a warming bias. Recent high-quality ice core data from Greenland shows that of the past 10,500 years, 9,100 were warmer than 2010, with no relation to CO2, while the longest instrumental record in the world in central England shows that December 2010 was the second coldest December dating back to 1659. Australian raw data shows that we have warmed only 0.6oC since 1910, and Mr Steketee needs to look at the less alarmist bigger picture and to be better informed about the work of experts such as Professor Bob Carter.
G M Derrick

The Australian: Letter to the Editor 8 January 2011
Andy Pitman (Australian 7 January 2011) is just another climate alarmist who now wants to bet each way - all cooling and all warming are now a product solely of man’s contributions of CO2 to the atmosphere. The evidence for this is slight to non-existent, and Pitman appeals to authority by wanting to give the planet the ’benefit of the doubt.’ Pitman is a climate modeller whose models have about as much scientific credibility as the recent foray by Tim Flannery into the world of Gaia – his predicted tropospheric hotspot has simply failed to materialize. Recent observational science of Greenland ice cores, as distinct from modelling, shows that of the past 10,500 years, 9,100 were warmer than 2010. Some 2010 peer reviewed papers so beloved by Pitman clearly show no direct correlation between anthropogenic CO2 and global warming, and to assume, like Pitman, that the ‘science is settled’ is just another academic travesty.
G M Derrick
53 Lilly Street
Sherwood Q 4075

7 January 2011
The Editor The Australian
Currently all levels of government and a generous population are planning to spend at least $6 billion and counting to repair and renew the flood damage to people, agriculture, mining and infrastructure which comprise the engine room of our economy. At the same time the Federal Government is planning to spend billions more dollars in the guise of a carbon tax, as part of a futile gesture to reduce emissions of a non-toxic and life-supporting gas by a few parts per million by 2050. Two things are clear: one, our agricultural industry wants more, not less of this harmless non-toxic gas because it makes plants grow and civilizations flourish, and two, the government’s carbon tax will typically be another total waste of taxpayer’s money blown against the wall, squandered in the name of unproven and faltering science and a nonsensical Labor-Green idealogical purity.
G M Derrick
53 Lilly Street
Sherwood Q 4075

From: Kim.Stanton-Cook
Sent: Thursday, 24 December 2009 12:43 PM
To: 'Terrence Sweetman'
Subject: Seasons Greetings from the Anthropogenic Climate Change Sceptics (Militant Wing)



…..or, what we Anthropogenic Climate Change Sceptics do to entertain ourselves when we’re not being scorned, vilified and condemned by journalists …….


Now, for your holiday entertainment, try the following……



Clive James:      (minor BBC4 promo in front, be patient, Clive’s discourse is very good)


Darwin Data:


The sad state of affairs re climate change:


What Happened to Global Warming?:


The impassioned finale to Lord Monckton’s appeal to the American people:


“Climate Change – So What?” by Hans Schreuder:  


The Falsification of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within the Frame of Physics

 – Gerlich, G., Tscheuschner, R.D., Jan6, 2009:


Getting RICH on alarmism…..


KS-C: I’ve reverted to the very simple and mundane when arguing with alarmists (although they’re becoming hard to find in the circles I move in, or will be moving out of, like the GSA)

·         Global temperatures (air & ocean) have been measured mostly over the last 150 years with mercury thermometers with one degree graduations. We’re not talking precision here even before we get to the heat island effects.

·         Same degree of accuracy in measuring global sea levels – also difficult to find, may need FOI……

·         Earth’s life forms invariably exploit abundance and if there’s an abundance of, say, CO2, those organisms with the capacity to use it will prosper and grow.

·         CO2 has dropped out of the alarmists lexicon, replaced by the original greenhouse gases catch-all as they realised we were on to their unsustainable argument. Did I send you this simple but straight-forward explanation of CO2’s contribution – Hawaii Reporter

·         I’m going to burn sulphides, generate power, make sulphuric acid for sale and for leaching our copper out of the roaster calcine…….  and claim carbon credits – I love the irony!


GMD Letter to the Editor – The Australian


Correspondent P Machanick (Letters, 20 October) states that mainstream science supporting anthropogenic global warming (AGW) has held up well against skeptical science. I beg to differ. There is more valuable science coming from the skeptics than from any Global Warming theory based on computer modeling.  The IPCC has simply omitted data that was contrary to its predetermined outcomes, as shown by discredited hockey stick graphs and recent controversy over tree rings in Siberia and the Urals; the man-made hotspot predicted by the ICCP models has yet to materialize in our planet’s equatorial troposphere; there has been no ocean heat buildup for the last 50 years, icecaps are within normal ranges, and oceans are currently cooling slightly; rises in carbon dioxide are shown to follow, not cause, temperature increases evident in ice cores from the past 400,000 years, and sea levels are not rising abnormally. On the soon-to be drowned Maldives, described by some as the Island of Mad,  there has been no sea level rise for 1200 years. When someone in the IPCC can actually prove anthropogenic CO2 emissions cause global warming and all the other predicted disasters, they may deserve the Nobel science prize.


Meanwhile, the AGW theory has been called “Fraud with Lipstick”. Based on emerging skeptical science, pursuit of AGW and an ETS by ill-informed governments will be one of the most costly scientific delusions of the past century.


G M Derrick




Thanks to Andrew Bolt:

Green groups sent polar bears to get a deal at Copenhagen:


Now Brisbane greens punish their negotiators for their failure:



…..and from the indefatigable Viv Forbes….




Carbon Sense


Opposing pollution of the atmosphere and the mind. 


CS 91217       Dec 2009                                                                








Please Spread “Carbon Sense” Around. Talk to friends and neighbours. Keep sowing the seeds.


If images are lost or format mangled in transmission, you can link to a print friendly PDF of this newsletter here:




“Lessons from Europe.”





“Although Germany’s promotion of renewable energies is commonly portrayed

in the media as setting a “shining example in providing a harvest for the

world” (The Guardian 2007), we would instead regard the country’s experience as a cautionary tale of massively expensive environmental and energy policy that is devoid of economic and environmental benefits.”



Full report see:





1.     Green Energy – some lessons from Europe


While the Rudd climate regiment is stuck in Copenhagen, achieving not much, they should look beyond their posh hotel for some lessons in energy generation.


First, slip over to France and note how these wily promoters of carbon rationing rely on nuclear power for 76% of their own energy.


Then visit UK and observe the frenzied construction of coal mines and nuclear  power stations to prevent future blackouts caused by UK’s silly dalliance with costly and unreliable wind farms.


Don’t miss out on Spain where the cost of subsidising green energy has created a financial crisis and destroyed 2.2 real jobs for every green job “created”.


They could also visit Scandinavia, which relies heavily on hydro power, or Iceland, where geothermal power is easily harnessed. No wonder these countries are relaxed about imposing carbon Ration-N-Tax Schemes on the rest of us.


A quick trip to Moscow could reveal how the cunning Russians, despite their well known scepticism about the west’s thermo-mania, have managed to trick Europe into buying huge quantities of gas together with the millions of emissions permits needed to burn it. Boris loves the ETS.


Just next door in Germany, Minister Wong could find out how the Greens have left Germany dangerously reliant on Russian gas. The German gamble with alternate energy has produced little power and no environmental benefits at great cost.


Finally, without leaving Copenhagen, Mr Rudd could easily discover how the forests of Danish windmills have produced little useful power and large financial losses for the suffering Danes. Freezing Copenhagen is heated mainly by imported electricity.


The Chinese however are happy with “Green Energy Europe” – they are busy manufacturing most of the world’s solar panels and wind turbines, emitting much carbon dioxide in the process.


This short European trip will illustrate the stupidity of Australia promoting a carbon Ration-N-Tax Scheme and dreaming that we can maintain our industry and our lifestyle on costly and totally unreliable alternate energy sources like wind and solar.



2.     Nature Snows on the global warming circus in Copenhagen


The Gore Effect strikes again.


Hundreds of people demonstrated and complained outside the meeting hall in Copenhagen yesterday at having to wait for up to ELEVEN HOURS IN THE FREEZING COLD, to get into the meeting to complain about GLOBAL WARMING!



45,000 people were trying to get into a room with capacity of 15,000. Sounds like CRU at East Anglia did the counting.




3.     Gutter Tactics from the IPCC – Scare the Children.


Watch this unbelievable horror video shown at the opening for the Copenhagen Climate Change Circus:

This illustrates the lengths and depths to which the individuals behind this movement are prepared to descend.


4.     One hundred reasons why global warming is natural

The Daily EXpress lists 100 reasons:


The tide has turned with the public, and the media has sensed it. But the thermo-maniacs will not give up easily. They are close to their fond goal of putting the western world in chains to fund the biggest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen. The whole scam is about as honest as a porno magazine with a picture of mother Teresa on the cover.



5.     Free Sex at Gropenhagen

Now we know why so many world leaders have decided to attend after all!


6.     New Climate Consensus – Global Warming is caused by rising US postal charges.

Here is a correlation better than the temperature vs carbon dioxide correlation supporting Al Gore’s Thermo-mania – global warming is driven by US postal charges. See:




7.     Twelve days at CarbonHagen

For those who missed it here is "The 12 Days of Global Warming at CarbonHagen:


8.     Thriving WITH Nature and Humanity

The genuine environment and conservation movement is one of the most important social movements on Earth. Yet, its credibility is endangered by confused and fearful politicians, alarmist activists, sensationalist media and prominent extremists with financial conflicts of interest.

Today we hear constant messages about the changing climate and the dire consequences that may have for our beautiful planet. Hearing loud, contradictory accusations and predictions of planetary doom you may feel confused about what and who to believe. Supposed experts disagree on both what is happening to our planet and the causes of what is happening. Yet we’re told there is universal agreement global warming was caused by humans…

It’s clear our climate, including temperatures, continually varies. Examination of this ongoing variation becomes alarm when doom is predicted from the presence of humans on Earth. Many people feel powerless and immobilised which only deepens their mix of confusion, desperation, apathy and panic…

You may think global warming needs to be treated as seriously as pollution yet they’re actually different issues and we should be even more concerned about the core issue - climate alarm. That’s because throughout human history actions driven by fear produced solutions far worse than the initial perceived problem.

The above are extracts from a masterful paper by Malcolm Roberts. See the full paper by following:



9.     Finally, Is the Earth Warming or Cooling? It depends.

See Bob Carter on the GW hoax: 

That’s all for now.


Viv Forbes



“Carbon Sense” is a newsletter produced by the Carbon Sense Coalition, an Australian based organisation which opposes waste of resources, opposes pollution, and promotes the rational and sustainable use of carbon energy and carbon food.

Please spread “Carbon Sense” around.

For more information visit our web site at

Literary, financial or other contributions to help our cause are welcomed.


Viv Forbes MS 23, Rosewood   Qld   4340   Australia.           07 5464 0533



This compilation courtesy of……


Kim Stanton-Cook

Managing Director

Golden Cross Resources

22 Edgeworth David Ave


T: 02 9472 3500

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